Opinions I have in plenty, but what I’m looking for now is justifications. For the most part, I have a good idea as to why some parents dislike the idea of a school uniform. Call it what you want: uniform policy, modified dress code, mandatory dress… they have slight differences in name, but each seem to incite some parents to the point of total disdain and I have yet to figure it out.
Currently, there is a parent group being formed to fight our school district on the issue of uniforms. One parent, recently quoted in our fabulous fair and balanced newspaper even wants to exempt his child from uniforms for “religious reasons”. What those reasons are remain a mystery to me.
Two years ago the school I was teaching in implemented a modified dress code that required students to wear the following:
- pants in khaki, blue, or black
- shirts in white, yellow, or blue (they must have collars and be free of any text save for logos)
Mind you, this was in a school with over 80% poverty and the parents overwhelmingly thanked us for implementing it and helping their child not be “called out” for having the wrong clothes. The small majority of parents who voiced concern wanted their child to have a choice in what they wore so they could prove their individuality.
Individuality = going to the mall and picking out the same popular clothes everyone else is wearing.
One of the things we’ve tried to show (based on some research we used) was that student discipline would decrease. Unfortunately, the number of referrals didn’t decrease. However, on picture day when students were allowed to wear whatever they wanted there were 60+ detentions because the students were all standing around admiring one another’s outfits. So much for that.
What the data does not show is the self-esteem factor. When our students of poverty came to school and looked like everyone else they felt better about themselves, did better in class, and were simply kinder to one another. Those aren’t the ones getting referrals. It’s the same repeat offenders of about 10% of the population.
Still, we’re met with cries of “WE WILL DRESS OUR KIDS IN WHATEVER THE HELL WE WANT!”
I’m forced to ask the question, “Why are you fighting us on this issue?”
If schools are saying the uniform dress codes are helpful to us in the classroom and the discipline office, why are we still getting flack?
Justification, anyone? Help me out here. I’m really trying to understand this one.
September 24, 2007 @ 5:13 pm | Filed under Education | Permalink |
Karoli Said,
September 24, 2007 @ 6:01 pm
I don’t know why they’d fight you on that, to be honest. There are so many REAL battles to take on in the world that fighting school uniforms should be the least of them.
I live in an upper middle class bedroom community that is adjacent to a much more multicultural and interesting community with many more poor students. These are the parents that work three jobs to send their kids to school in anything. They’d be grateful to buy uniforms for their kids — they could be handed down, they’re inexpensive, and they eliminate the envy factor.
Maybe there’s something about the conformity that bothers these parents, but it shouldn’t. If I were having a conversation with them I’d remind them that it takes away the distraction caused when someone wears something revealing, or with symbols, text or logos that are forbidden. It also frees the teachers to not worry about what the students are wearing.
Sometimes I think parents are just too full of themselves and need to get a grip. Who wants to spend half the day deciding if someone is wearing something against the rules?
Better yet, invite them to form a dress code task force to police and monitor clothing for compliance with school policies and then see how long that lasts before they beg for uniforms.
DD Said,
September 24, 2007 @ 7:07 pm
My grandchildren have been enrolled schools with and without dress codes. This year they are in a new school with no dress code (no uniforms). Within the first three weeks my oldest grandchild, this precious little girl who has a great personality, is usually very popular and is so intelligent for her 10 years feels very self-conscious because her mother (being a single mom with 3 children) can’t afford to dress her as “nice” as some of the other children. Granted, it may be an “age” and/or a “girl” thing….but I have never seen her self-confidence waiver like it has lately, over this issue.
I am strongly in favor of dress code/uniform policies in schools. I believe that takes at least one factor out of the judgement pool. There are so many pressures on children today, I don’t understand why a parent wouldn’t WANT a uniform policy.
I’ll bet the parents that are throwing the biggest “hissy fits” are those from upper-income families. If their kids can’t dress the part….how will they be assured that everyone else knows their social/financial status? The nut doesn’t fall far from the tree….the children behave as they have seen their parents behave.
I agree, the parents need to get a grip….level that playing field all you can!!
coolbeans Said,
September 24, 2007 @ 7:11 pm
I love having a dress code. It takes the fight out of shopping and laundry is much simpler. The only time I dislike it is two weeks before school when the ONE store we have that carries dress-code appropriate gear is sold out.
Our kids can wear whatever shoes they like as long as they’re wearing socks. Girls can wear bows and junk in their hair. They don’t seem to mind the long, shaggy hair styles the boys wear now. Those are the ways our kids can express their individuality physically. But why are parents valuing physical individuality over personal creativity, academic excellence, or athletic discipline?
The only thing I’d complain about is the shirt colors. Ours are royal or navy blue, red, white, black. I would strongly dislike having to keep white and yellow shirts looking nice. But I suspect there’s a very good reason for not allowing some of those colors for older students.
Mocha Momma Said,
September 24, 2007 @ 7:15 pm
Karoli - I’d love to put them in charge of that. THAT would be helping schools, but apparently many of them think “helping schools” = trying to change the curriculum to how theirs was in school.
DD - For the most part, you’re right. Many complainers are upper-middle class parents insistent on forcing everyone else to keep up with the Jones’. They, by the way, are The Jones’.
coolbeans - Oh, the yellow is because of the school color. The white? I guess it’s easy to find and buy.
MizAngie Said,
September 24, 2007 @ 7:51 pm
Several of the schools in Tyler have gone to the type of uniforms you describe for students through middle school, while the high schools are still able to wear what they wish. There are, however, stringent rules about wearing t-shirts with text and/or pix on them. It’s unbelievable what you can find printed on the front of a tshirt, and kids feel that if you can buy it then it’s okay to wear it to school. One of the high schools used to use the Rebel as a mascot which eventually led to extreme racial tension. The mascot was changed back in the seventies to a Red Raider but at least once a year some little redneck will wear a tshirt with a Rebel flag emblazoned on the front. He probably doesn’t even know what a Rebel IS but he knows that flag will start some crap. And it does.
My dad was a high school principal back when the mini-skirt was popular. He made a rule about skirt lengths and lots of mamas came to school complaining. He told them they would schedule the topic on the next Board agenda. Then he quietly took pictures of girls whose parents didn’t know that their skirt lengths were adjusted once the girls got to school to go from short to micro-mini. His skirt length rule passed into policy at the next Board meeting with the support of some very embarrassed and angry parents. So I would suggest visual evidence of some of the things your research shows. A nice picture of those famous two kids from Colombine who were allowed the individuality of dressing all in black, etc, could be powerful. Or an 8th grader with a tshirt that says “Born to F*ck” or pants sagged down to the knees or my favorite combo - the low rider jeans with visible thong. Some people are so clueless.
Jennifer Said,
September 24, 2007 @ 8:09 pm
Great Post! My mom always talked about school uniforms and how all school should have them. My grandmother was a widoe with 5 girls, and they were on welfare. My mother said that nobody knew how little they had, they all looked the same. I wish more schools did it.
Mrs RW Said,
September 24, 2007 @ 8:36 pm
Shoot, I should comment earlier. Everybody else took all the good comments. When I think of the unhappiness that trying to look cool caused my girls between 5th grade and high-school graduation that would be enough justification for me to vote for uniforms. They’re still trying to figure out what their own style is and they’re both almost 30.
Another argument for uniforms: kids sleep ’til the very last minute and uniforms would eliminate the “what am I going to wear today” quandary that occurs every morning 2 minutes before the bus is due.
The biggest problem with dress codes is that SOMEONE has to enforce them or you might as well not even have the damn code in the first place. Uniforms make life simpler for everybody. One of the beauties of working in a hospital is that getting dressed is a no-brainer: scrubs and gym shoes. Now that I no longer wear a uniform I spend probably 10 times as much on clothes. Of course, the money I spend on shoes is money well-spent; cute shoes, after all, make you look 10 pounds thinner. This is a well-known phenomenon.
Kids Birthday Party Ideas Said,
September 24, 2007 @ 9:06 pm
I wore uniforms all through elementary school and did not in high school. I loved them! As everyone else’s comments point out (and that I want to highlight)… as a student, it was so liberating NOT to have to think of what to wear. Self-expression or individuality was never an issue. Looking back, it seems to me that de-emphasizing what people wore allowed them to express themselves in more meaningful ways… like talents and interests.
I wish there were the equivalent of uniforms for the workplace. I spend the MINIMUM amount of time selecting my clothes for the day. I’m a designer too so you’d think I’d be all about the “self-expression.” But I just put on my “black and tan uniform” and focus my creativity on my work.
Tricia Said,
September 24, 2007 @ 9:23 pm
Loved uniforms- I wore them in late elementary school and high school. I’d have to say that you could tell the rich kids from the not so much money girls. I wore the same shirts over and over, with my lovely brown skirt, while the girls with more money had much more variety in their uniform. Not to mention the accessories… I can still wear the same pants for many days in a row, shhhh… don’t tell.
Moley123 Said,
September 25, 2007 @ 12:35 am
Living in England it is the predominant policy for all attendees at school to wear uniform. I’m not sure what the underlying ethos was/is for this however I can say I was very grateful for its implementation. My parents never had much spare cash and this meant at least when I was at school I looked no different from the other students. Furthermore as I was not a ‘hip’ child and if we had been permitted to wear non uniform, I know I’d of encountered great difficulties dressing myself in the latest fashion to ensure I was seen as part of the main trendy crowd, so by wearing one such pitfalls were avoided.
I think it is an important part of school life, mainly for the above reasons, but also as it can incite a feeling of pride, belonging and identity.
Zoot Said,
September 25, 2007 @ 5:24 am
I have nothing but praise for dress codes/uniforms. I was the kid at the private school who dreaded the out-of-uniform days because I would have to borrow clothes from friends. The uniform did, like you say, make me feel more confident because not everyone knew I didn’t own the Benetton Sweaters and Sabagos and Vuarnet T-shirts (I’m dating myself, aren’t I?) that everyone else did. I have always told my son I’d support any initiative for uniforms at his school (which he hates).
So - only support coming from me.
I have always raised my child to be individual in mind and spirit, regardless of what he is wearing or how he looks. I am confident that if he had to wear a uniform his individuality would still shine through in his words and actions.
Aynde Said,
September 25, 2007 @ 6:48 am
A long time ago in a far away city - I sent my son, a third grader at the time, to a charter school. They had a uniform policy that I HATED. It wasn’t the idea of uniforms that got to me it was the schools policy that the uniforms had to be one particular brand. Of course that particular brand was only sold in one store in town. This particular brand was not inexpensive.
The uniform was navy or kakhi pants with a White, green or burgundy polo. A black or brown braided leather belt and black shoes which could be changed during gym time for tennis shoes.
I was a single working mother at the time and could not afford this brand of uniform. I asked the school officials if I could buy similar but off brand clothes from other reatailers. I was told no. I remember being in the store buying 2 pants 2 shirts and a belt (which I used money that I budgeted for groceries to buy). It was all I could afford at the time. I remember feeling so angry that they could not make a small adjustment for those of us who were not as well to do as other parents. After washing and washing those 2 uniforms I finally said screw it. I went out and bought him 3 off brand pants (but still blue and kakhi) and then went to Wal-Mart and bought him a few plain white and dark green polos. It took a couple of days but one of the uniform police at the school caught on to me and my son was sent home.
Son is in 7th grade now. He goes to regular public school. He is not required to wear a uniform but the school does have a dress code. Thankfully he’s not yet “fashion conscious” enough to want designer jeans and shirts. Although he is wanting fancy sneakers. (Mom, can I get some Jordans?) I’m a lot better off financially now than I was then but I have never forgotten the charter school uniform policy. To this day when I hear “We’re thinking of requiring school uniforms” I bristle. I know not all schools are that charter school but the anger and even embarrasment of not being able to afford school uniforms has stuck with me to this day.
MeL Said,
September 25, 2007 @ 6:49 am
As a teenager, I probably would have pretended to hate uniforms - but living in a very affluent area and being dressed in whatever my mom picked up at the local salvation army store, it would have been protest for show only. It would have saved me a lot of grief over the years not to have to worry about the fact that none of my clothes had the “right” designer label, etc.
Now, as a parent (and a woman who finally learned to love clothes. Perhaps just a wee bit TOO much, but I digress…) I am fully in support of uniforms. In fact, we’ll likely seek out a school with them when the boys start regular school. I love to shop for them and buy them cool stuff to wear, but school shouldn’t be a fashion show. Most especially in areas and schools with a diverse mix of wealth and poverty, there is already enough to divide the kids and take the focus off of getting educated.
If I hadn’t been trying to keep such a low profile in high school (partly due to my really awful clothes) I might have actually stopped trying to stand out as one of the “smart kids” and maybe done my homework and studied for tests. Then, instead of my 3.5 GPA I very likely would have graduated near the top of my class and maybe applied for some scholarships and to some better schools. It’s all conjecture, of course, but there is no denying that how I was dressed played a part in how I behaved during those years.
I think it’s likely that the only parents complaining about the uniforms can either afford to buy their kids the best clothes (and place a high premium on that) or they are of the “I’m my kid’s buddy and am on their side, reasonable or not…” variety. I could be mistaken, but that’s my take.
Dana Said,
September 25, 2007 @ 7:16 am
I think school uniforms with the blazers are a little much just because I think they are uncomfortable and fit me funny. But I love the idea of the khaki’s and shirts in a select colors. I think it’s more helpful to have everyone dressed in similar attire so as not to leave anyone out. And I agree with the discipline issue.
In a local elementary school here, children are not allowed to wear name brand clothing because of the fact that many students’ parents cannot afford this attire.
Several parents threw a fit because they felt their child’s freedom of expression was being taken away. What it really boils down to is that those parents were wealthy and were upset that they couldn’t show it through their children’s clothing. Their kids were the ones who were the little meanies who picked on other kids for not wearing the name brand clothes.
It was a big controversy here for a long time, but eventually the school was able to enforce the policy and I think it’s the best thing they’ve done about dress code.
Dana Said,
September 25, 2007 @ 7:21 am
I forgot to mention this:
When I was in school, if I wanted anything name brand, I had to buy it myself with my allowance. I even asked my mom why she never bought me guess jeans and aside from cost, she said, “I’m not going to dress you like all those rich kids who don’t appreciate the insane cost of cheap denim with a triangle on the ass.”
She told me she didn’t understand why some parents chose to buy their children expensive clothes and often attributed it to the fact that perhaps they were making up for what they didn’t have as children.
Gillian Said,
September 25, 2007 @ 7:59 am
I wore Goodwill clothes as a kid, or hand me downs from BOY cousins (you know what? I still do. Nice clothes have never been in my budget, poor pitiful me.) The oldest of 5, mom didn’t work outside the home, the grandparents lived with us - there was no money for clothes. My baby sister, the last one left at home, is spoiled in that regard, and I couldn’t tell you which of us is better off - the poorer kid with no self esteem, or the well-dressed kid with no empathy.
The humiliation of being unable to dress as fabulous as you feel - well, I’d spare anybody that if I could. I truly wish we could have uniforms at work.
radical mama Said,
September 25, 2007 @ 7:59 am
I completely understand the need for uniforms in schools. I agree with you that students who can’t afford expensive clothing can feel like equals.
My only concern is that school uniforms can mask that the poverty still exists. I hope that people don’t forget that it’s just covering something up, not solving a problem, and that we continue to work towards the end of poverty.
Lovebabz Said,
September 25, 2007 @ 8:06 am
I LOVE uniforms. You don’t have to buy one for everyday of the week. I have 4 kids the girls have a dress and two shirts, the boys have 2 pair of khakis and 2 shirts each. And they each have I set of gym clothes. It can get expensive if you buy 5 uniforms and 5 shirts for each child. That isn’t smart or economical. On the weekends they wear street clothes and it’s fine. What I have found is that it’s usually poor folks who try to wear all the trendy stuff. The well-to-do kids don’t seem to be all that interested in the latest fashion trends–at least in my neigborhood. I live in a very affluent neighborhood–but you couldn’t tell that by the way the kids are very simply dressed. And the majority of the kids go to schools that requires uniforms. Private schools understand that uniforms are the great equalizer. Charter schools get this too. Public Schools are late to this party. I suggest marketing the wearing of uniforms as a tool to keep kids safe. A way to cut down on bullying, and as away to identify kids who belong there from others who may wander in for mischief. Sell it as a safety issue–find some studies and statistics supporting this and then slap the dissenting parents with it upside the head.
ChicagoDave Said,
September 25, 2007 @ 8:06 am
I continue to be amazed at how shallow (and therefore fragile) we’ve become in this country. I think it comes down to needing to use clothes (or things) to define self worth. “I have the latest designer dud, cell phone, etc., so I’m a worthwhile (or better) human being.”
Perhaps it’s just a reflection of the consumer society we live in, but there has to be more. One of the most ironic things I’ve seen is how people try to subvert the uniform system by purchasing designer uniforms. “MY blue pants and white shirt have this label inside…”
And it’s really not the kids - it’s the parents. They are the ones defining their child’s self worth by possessions and appearance.
How sad.
RWA Said,
September 25, 2007 @ 9:02 am
If I had to throw out a possible reason for why they want to fight it, perhaps they want their kids to wear the clothes they already own - and they don’t want to go out and buy clothes just for school?
Or maybe not.
We never had a dress code in school. Perhaps we should have. Of course, then I would never have enjoyed English class as much when Erin used to wear those low-cut, somewhat-revealing tops.
Then again…I probably would have made a better grade in English too.
Leah Said,
September 25, 2007 @ 9:47 am
Uniforms eliminate class disparities. Schools with little economic disparity don’t seem to see the need for a uniform. Socioecononomic integration should be critical…I think not wanting uniforms says more about the lack of integration than anything else.
themikestand Said,
September 25, 2007 @ 10:31 am
Oh, come on. What a waste of friggin’ money. When on earth are kids going to find a time and a place to wear dress code clothes again. Think! KHAKI PANTS AND SHIRTS WITH COLLARS? Nobody wears that stuff.
Okay, so that was in jest. You got that, right? Good.
I suppose the only thing I might have against that dress code is that it indirectly supports The Gap.
Holly Said,
September 25, 2007 @ 11:15 am
I have a strange relationship with the concept of uniforms. My parents, thinking they were the Jones’, sent me to a ritzy private school from Pre-K to 4th Grade. The school required students to wear uniforms purchased from one specific (expensive)uniform shop.
Despite their delusions of grandeur, my parents were not the Jones’, they couldn’t keep up with the Jones’, in fact, they couldn’t even keep up with those who kept up with the Jones’. So back-to-school uniform-ordering time was especially stressful because they were so expensive (I’m guessing tuition was paid in installments instead of the all-at-once cost of uniforms).
When they finally got a clue and sent me to public school in 5th grade, it was a relief when they no longer had to spend so much on made-to-order uniforms (and then we went back-to-school shopping and realized THAT was WAY more expensive in the long run - 5 to 7 uniforms and 1 pair of shoes per year vs. the latest outfits and shoes to fit each season).
I was relieved because I could finally dress like everyone else and not have to stand out and express my (read: my mom’s) individuality. My mom insisted on having my uniforms made in fabrics or colors that nobody else ordered (the school required a particular jumper-type dress, but wasn’t strict about the colors). Most people went with navy, assorted plaids and blue pin-stripes. Just to be different, my mom ordered me solids, plaids and stripes in odd colors, no navy for me. She even ordered odd fabrics like seersucker. I was the only 3rd grader dressed for a game of shuffleboard at a retirement village on Miami Beach. To make things worse, she had them all monogrammed with my name. Not subtle monogrammed initials on the collar of the shirt under the jumper, but my full first name, in coordinating colors, monogrammed in cursive on the actual jumper. Nobody did that. Boy, did I hate those uniforms.
The whole point of this story is to say that the parents may be up-in-arms because making the students wear uniforms eliminates the ability for THEM to express their individuality through their children, or let their children serve as a walking billboard to promote the parent’s wealth/status (ability to buy their kids nice stuff), culture /adherences to religion, or possibly even progressiveness (I knew a girl in high school who outlandish clothing and a tall mohawk and her parents were so proud of, and bragged about, their daughter’s “originality”).
I think the parents need to get over themselves. Uniforms eliminate so many conduct and self-esteem issues. They also cut down on wear-and-tear of their kids street clothes/shoes, stuff that costs more to replace than uniforms. They also are a pretty economical way to dress their kids 5 days out of 7. The parents can let their kids dress any way they want after school and on weekends, it is their right. But it is the school’s right to decide what the kids should wear to school.
BUT (there’s always a but, right?), before a school or district enforces a uniform policy, I think it is only responsible for them to create a plan for the first few years to help parents whose kids depend on hand-me-downs, etc. for clothing, and who legitimately can not afford to go out and buy their kids all new wardrobes, even affordable uniform wardrobes. I’m not sure how such a program would work or who would even manage it (local stores? the school? the district?), or if it is even fair to ask the parents to swallow pride and ask for charity, but I think it is irresponsible for schools to assume that all parents can afford to comply with a newly mandated uniform/modified dress policy.
dawn Said,
September 25, 2007 @ 11:53 am
Sadly many parent resent schools telling them what to do with their children. So often, this type of “preaching” from schools hits our impoverished families the most. I think uniforms are great and I wish all schools had them…as it does level the playing field. I wish I knew a way around the whole “who are you to tell me what my kid can wear.” Especially when many times the parent probably don’t have any idea what their kids leave the house in.
What mom in their right mind lets their 15-year-old high school student go to school with and airbrushed t-shirt of al pacino–as scarface–holding a machine gun? Really that is better than a uniform?
Julie Pippert Said,
September 25, 2007 @ 12:21 pm
I’m a fan of uniforms for all the reasons you present plus personal experience. I was forced to go to Beverly Hills 90210 High (not it’s real name and high school for me predated that show anyway). I was, for the record, the Beverly Hillbilly although without the big bank account. And it wasn’t CA.
I worked three jobs senior year just to earn enough to do things with friends and dress in a way that didn’t invite mockery.
Had we had uniforms, I might have been SMARTER and banked that money for college.
Julie
Using My Words
Cynthia Samuels Said,
September 25, 2007 @ 12:45 pm
I’m a 60s girl and an 80s (kids born 1975, 1979) mom and I raised our boys in turtlenecks and flannel shirts and overalls. I would, then, have been in the “don’t stifle the kid w/a uniform” ranks. Not now though. Nope. My kids turned out great, spent their adolescence REFUSING any clothes with logos even when they were on sale and are generally ethical and cool.
BUT these are different times. It began when they were kids with the sneaker killings. It’s universal now though; little girls look like hookers or dolled up greeting cards. Boys aren’t much better. Here I am a Jewish self-proclaimed free spirit admiring the Christian Mothers for Modesty for sticking up for the option of helping little girls continue to look like — little girls. And both genders behaving the way people with diminished self-respect behave - no manners, not enough sense of responsibility, and a sexualization that’s just horrifying to me. So I’m with you — uniforms give them a crack at becoming themselves — remaining who they are instead of who the clothes declare them to be. Stick to your guns you guys.
Robin Said,
September 25, 2007 @ 1:00 pm
I grew up in a very rural community, where most of us were white, save a few Native Americans, and were equally as poor as each other, so I’m not sure my comments are relevant here, but when I was in high school our school board tried out a dress code. This type of dress code was put into place more for the I don’t want to see the crack of your ass or your midriff thankyouverymuch aspect than the pay attention and stop teasing people about not wearing Nike aspect, but it was new all the same. I don’t remember all the details, but it was something like no skirts shorter than the tips of your fingers, no teeshirts with logos, no sleeveless shirts, all your pants have to have pockets, etc. Sounds fairly benign, but it sent a pretty huge ripple through our school. The parents actually didn’t care very much. It was the students. We all worked through high school, many of us having two jobs through the summer just to afford some new cool looking clothes and maybe a dinner out with friends every now and again. We liked our clothes. We liked being able to wear the fruits of our labor. When the new dress code came into effect, it was already into the year and we had already purchased our clothes with our hard-earned money. I was one of the more vocal opponents to the dress code and openly defied it. I wore what I wanted because I felt nothing I wore was offensive in the first place. I believed I had good taste, and a bunch of 45 year olds sitting in a board room had no place in telling me what I should be wearing in a public school that I was helping to pay for with my taxes from my two jobs that I had so I could wear what I wanted. I have no idea what would have happened if a uniform was implemented.
I think I understand the need for uniformity in larger, more diversive schools and the studies on the helpfulness of them are just this side of astounding (I looked into the studies when I found out a local private school required them). Now that I’m an official grown-up with kids of my own, I’m not sure how I would feel about a uniform in high school. I think grade school uniforms would make it easier because they grow so daggum fast and clothes are not cheap. Keep in mind that I live in a small town in a rural community (not the same one I grew up in, but a similar place), so I’m not familiar with the types of issues facing large, urban schools.
I say turn a deaf ear to the naysayers and quietly go about your business of improving the learning environment in which you live and work. I say do what Works.
As for students like me, detention and an embarassing meeting with my parents did the trick.
I still don’t understand the pants with pockets rule though…
KC Said,
September 25, 2007 @ 2:18 pm
No one likes change, especially if it is being forced onto them without much say… and even if they do - most resent change and will fight it.
I grew up poor. My dad busted his butt off to keep a roof over our heads and food on our table. I had the odd babysitting job that put some money in my pocket but most of my clothes were hand me downs from congregation members or from the cheapie stores in town. I managed to look decent but never had label clothing. The public high school I attended didn’t have a dress code per say… but they made sure you were dressed in a modest fashion (skirt length rule, no showing belly, undergarments were not to be visible)… nothing revealing. The teachers followed the same rules. If your attire was a distraction to the teachers and other students…. you were sent home. In my whole high school tenure - I saw that happen only twice. There was talk about uniforms… and the school actually put it out to the parents to vote on the issue, allowing some to express their concerns in a private manner. My father voted no - not because he didn’t like the idea of uniformity in the classroom… but simply because he couldn’t afford it. He was raising 5 kids with an ex wife who refused to help pay for anything. He did say that if the school had an assistance program… he would reconsider it but at the time - it simply wasn’t feasible. The school wanted one brand, one color, with 3 sets of everything. It was unrealistic for many students in my school. The school never passed it… after much debate. What I truly appreciated was the ability as a student to sit in class with some of our teachers to debate the issue with fellow classmates. Surprisingly enough - the kids were not that adverse to it and had made some interesting points. It brought about a healthy debate in a controlled manner … perhaps done in a more mature manner than their parents at the school board meeting.
As an adult, without children of my own… I think there is much to be said about an enforced dress code. We have it at our work place - business casual, unless you are meeting with the customer then its full business attire. No torn jeans, no T-Shirts, colared shirts etc… I like the idea of specific colors and the no visible labels/prints/text on said clothes. It still leaves plenty of room for creativity and for those who grew up like me… poorer than the average middle-class household… it gives them the option of sticking within the dress code rules but being able to afford it as well. I would tend to gravitate towards that over an strict uniform rule.
With change usually comes great resistance. Be a ‘borg’ - resistance is futile (OK - I’m a dork I know but live long and prosper baby!!!). But take in the bigger picture and be aware of the community that makes up this school. Offer work around plans for parents who are struggling financially… in a private and respectful manner. I would say start it for the next school year or after Christmas… as many already purchased their clothes for the year/season. It might lessen the shock if they are even shown the financial benefits of uniforms (cost of uniforms over X years vs. cost of street clothes over X years)… you might get more support that way…
Mocha Momma Said,
September 25, 2007 @ 5:29 pm
I think I half-expected that many of you would disagree for other reasons than what you’ve mentioned.
For those parents of poverty we’ve come across in my own schools we have supplied them with clothing we’ve gotten donated. It’s also wise to offer hand-me-down clothing trades, in my view, but to my knowledge we hadn’t started something like that yet.
So, even though it seems to, on the surface, punish the poor, they’re actually getting help with buying clothes. That’s a good thing, right?
Wow, you’ve got some stories, folks! I can’t believe all these experiences and how varied it is. Thanks! Keep ‘em coming!
Fat Lady Said,
September 25, 2007 @ 9:39 pm
Well, let me be the voice of dissent here. My oldest daughter goes to an elementary school where they do NOT wear uniforms and I wouldn’t have it any other way. Uniformity is not something I desire for my children.
When I look at adult environments where uniforms are worn - prison, military, various kinds of public service (police, firefighters, garbage collectors) there are two reasons for it. One is identification - people need to know the job that is being done by the people they see in these positions. The other is because the people involved need to work as parts of the whole - the whole, and it’s structures, rules and culture, and an adherence to them - being more important than the individual.
Children do not need to be identified as children or students - they embody those positions regardless of their dress. And I do not wish for my children that part of their education is to learn to be simply a part of the whole or that the whole is more important than their individual part of it.
My children go to school in order to gain knowledge and to learn how to process and use that knowledge. They go to school to learn how to use their individual brains. I do not send them to school to learn how to follow rules, adhere to a structure without thought and consideration, or do anything mindlessly.
I want all the actions of my children to be thoughtful ones. And that includes getting up and putting on clothes. They need to think about the choices they make and why they make them. And I want them to have the opportunity to make choices and receive my guidance and the guidance of others about their choices now while they are children and are learning.
When I hear people talking about kids who are made to feel bad because they don’t wear specific brands and labels, or about kids fighting over sneakers, or any of these other ills that people assume will be solved by schools requiring uniforms, it makes me sad. Rather than teaching our children to make responsible, well thought out choices, people would prefer to remove choice all together.
My older daughter and I have discussions about clothing. For one, we cannot afford to spend exorbitant amounts of money on clothing. And even if I had the money, I would refuse to spend money on something just because it has a certain label or name associated with it when I knew I could buy something similar for much less. I discuss these things with my daughter and will continue to as she gets older and is subjected to more and more outside influences.
I foster her creativity in a variety of ways, not the least of which is encouraging her to wear clothing that she feels good about - not because it’s expensive or because others consider it stylish, but because it’s what SHE likes, and what appeals to her.
And she learns about the responsibility associated with wearing what she likes. That there are clothes that are not appropriate for school. That she needs to make decisions about what she wears each day. What she wears on a day she has art or movement is likely to be very different than her clothing choices on a day she has more physical activities. I don’t want her robbed of these daily opportunities to learn about making choices, and living with the consequences of them.
I have both read, and heard from people I know who teach on a college level, that many kids these days get to college and and struggle because they suddenly have all these choices, are in a position to make all these decisions for themselves and they are completely unprepared to handle such autonomy.
These kids have spent so much time in structured programs and organized sports, wearing what they’re told to wear, going where they’re told to go, playing what they’re told to play, living within so much structure that’s been created to protect or shield them, that when they are faced with life outside of a pre-existing structure, they fall apart - or at least flounder around a bit before they begin to get their bearings.
When I was in college I had a wonderful professor who said to me that if she could teach her students any one thing above all else, it would be to think for themselves. To teach them how to really look at things and think about them. Well, I don’t want my children to wait until they get in college to start learning how to think for themselves. That’s something I think they deserve to learn early on - and get practice at throughout their childhood, so that by the time they go out on their own, they don’t have to learn how to make decisions, they are already familiar with it.
I think that, certainly, there are a plenty of people who feel comfortable with uniforms - and those people should have the choice of going to schools where uniforms are worn. Similarly, I think parents deserve educational options for their children that are compatible with their values - including not wearing uniforms.
Here in NYC whether or not to wear uniforms is something that’s decided on a per school basis. I would be furious if the Dept. of Ed decided to make uniforms a system-wide mandate - leaving my children and I without a choice in the matter.
Holly Said,
September 26, 2007 @ 1:11 am
I don’t think uniforms punish the poor. Long-term, a uniform policy is beneficial for all families, wealth and poor, as long as the policy is not stupid or expensive (like the one I experienced or the one at Aynde’s son’s school - I still can’t believe he was sent home!). I do think it is more difficult for the poor to adapt to a newly mandated dress code, but it sounds like your school has that under control.
The funny thing is that these parents who are complaining about uniforms are probably the same ones who will go out and buy Harry Potter Halloween costumes for their kids. Those costumes are just school uniforms. If uniforms are good enough for Harry and Hermione…
Melanie Said,
September 26, 2007 @ 7:24 am
Well, Fat Lady pretty much said everything I was going to say. I completely agree with her analysis and opinions.
A dress code may eliminate some behavioral issues. I can see your point there. However, to suggest that it will level the playing field for the cool vs. un-cool game is wrong. I think you’ll find that kids are going to pick on each other for something–whether it’s clothes, hair, shoes, purses, whatever. You can’t control it all and they’re going to have to deal with it some time. Parental and adult guidance will do more for self-esteem and decision-making than a uniform. Schools aren’t meant to take the place of a parent’s influence. Granted, some parents are seriously lacking, but it’s not the school’s job to step in and make it better.
I realize I’m in the minority here, but that’s my opinion fwiw. Good discussion.
Jeff Said,
September 26, 2007 @ 8:34 am
All I can say is my daughter’s school has uniforms (khaki pants/shorts/skirts and non-logo polos of any color) and we love it. We NEVER have issues in the morning about what she’s wearing and everything always matches so laundry is easy. In her school there is a wide economic disparity and wearing common clothes goes a long way in erasing that gap.
Cordaville Said,
September 26, 2007 @ 8:56 am
Hey, just wanted to pop in and say hi! I would love it if my kids school had uniforms!!!
Have a great day!
Hugs,
Cordaville
CJ Said,
September 26, 2007 @ 10:38 am
Really, we grew up pretty poor. We never had money for lunch or groceries, let alone clothes. I don’t know how my parents would have afforded uniforms if the school required a certain brand or store, but if it was reasonable surely it would have been better than the daily torment from the other students who picked on my sister and me. I mean, it went to the level of sexual harassment where the students would jokingly say I was sexy (I was a huge nerd) and touch me inappropriately. They constantly made fun of my clothes and the fact that we were poor. Sometimes it would even become violent, with me having my head shoved into a wall and me nearly blacking out, or being shoved into a doorframe and spraining my wrist. All of this was being done because the rich, popular kids thought it was funny. I had zero friends because no one would be caught dead hanging out with the poor kids or face the similar treatment. Really, if everyone had to wear clothes that were the same and without any designer logos I would have felt much better because they couldn’t have singled me out like they did. I still have emotional scars that may never heal.
Grace Said,
September 26, 2007 @ 10:40 am
Have you thought about free dress day once a month? Maybe that will help.
Lily Said,
September 26, 2007 @ 12:32 pm
Another dissent here. My son attends a school where the uniforms are optional. Every year for the last two years (3rd and now 4th grade) I have opted him OUT of the uniforms.
I opt him out simply because wardrobe and clothing options for us, at this point, are not an issue. He does not even want to go with me to shop for his clothes. I grab a few shirts and some shorts, some new socks and he’s good to go. Once the weather cools enough to warrant pants I buy a few pairs for him.
He gets up and gets dressed and ready for school without my prompting or nagging - every day.
It works for us. There are no battles over what to wear and what not to wear. Uniforms would “fix” something in our household that is not broken. I discussed the uniform policy with him and let him decide. He wanted to opt out. We do have an agreement that the minute clothing becomes a focus or a battle of any sort - I will revoke the “opt-out” form and he will wear uniforms. The end.
In a single-parent home, I’ve learned to choose my battles. Early morning, pre-coffee wrestling and wrangling in to school uniforms? No thank you! Not unless it is interfering with his schooling and at this point it is not, so we’re sticking with it.
Jellogirl Said,
September 26, 2007 @ 3:34 pm
so….what…now you are biased against people of certain religions? Of COURSE there are some religions that would have a problem with some of the uniforms out there and I happen to be one of those people. For someone complaining so much about racism, you sound pretty insensitive!
Mocha Said,
September 26, 2007 @ 6:51 pm
I appreciate the dissent. Thank you for explaining your reasons in a logical, well-constructed manner.
HOWEVER.
If you, you commercially prepared gelatin dessert, have something to add, then so be it. I’m not so much insensitive to religion as you suggest. If you were to re-read the post, you’d see that those reasons remain a mystery to me.
You do, too.
It’s not the insensitivity toward religion so much as ignorance and stupidity. Man. Do I ever hate that.
Jellogirl Said,
September 26, 2007 @ 7:02 pm
So I’m biased because I say “I have black friends,” but you aren’t biased for acting as if it’s unthinkable that there are actually religious reasons to be against a particular dress code? Yeah. You are right that I took your comments out of context…just like you take the comment “I have black friends” out of context and call it racism. My point is this: You want to be sensitive about racism but I can’t be sensitive about religion. Okay. Whatever.
Mocha Momma Said,
September 26, 2007 @ 7:36 pm
Poor Jellogirl. You have nothing else to do but rail on about some “I have black friends” statement that I know nothing about? When, exactly, did I call you biased for such a statement?
You know what? It sounds like I have real questions for you. I don’t.
Refrain from commenting here ever again.
Tricia Said,
September 27, 2007 @ 4:00 pm
Whoa! In and out, in and out…
Marilyn Said,
September 28, 2007 @ 2:51 am
As someone who spent 8 years wearing the most godawful wool, red plaid jumper thing to a small Catholic school, I can’t believe I’m saying this…but I’m totally for school uniforms. What did it for me was our 5 years in the U.S. Virgin Islands where I saw the positive side of what uniforms can do for kids. All students–private and public schools alike–wear them there. The lack of individuality in what kids wear here was really driven home with me when I took my teenage niece shopping at Forever 21 and realized that she keeps buying the same items over and over and over, just in different colors or patterns.
Chocolate_matters Said,
September 30, 2007 @ 1:53 am
You bring up a good point here. I have worked in schools that made it mandatory to wear uniforms. I am kind of bias toward them since when I was a child every september was a nightmare for me and my mother having to go out and try to find the right “gear” so to speak, so that I could at least try to fit in with the school crowd. Trying to rock the latest in designer wear was not cutting it for the limited funds my mom had. I had to make do with what ever her paycheck would allow.
I feel for the children who are in poverty and can’t afford the latest gear let alone just the basic stuff. It not only affects their social life but their academic life as well.
I think having one set uniform for the entire school reduces the name calling that can occur, because lets not fool ourselves, kids can be cruel to one another.
Marsha Said,
October 1, 2007 @ 9:57 am
I’m in favor of school uniforms. I’ve sent kids with them & without them. It’s easier all the way around not to have make that decision every morning. The school my daughter attended that required uniforms did have a “swap” every year before school. And the school took donations of uniform pieces, as well. If your child had a growth spurt during the year, you could go to the uniform room & look for the size you needed (either free or for a minimal cost). Now that she’s a ‘tween, I really wish she still wore them. I dread what’s inevitably coming!
EricAtRandom Said,
October 7, 2007 @ 4:28 pm
To this day, I am so anti-dress code (for myself), and I attribute it to Catholic school uniforms. I know when it’s appropriate to wear a tie, and I will. But I can’t fathom 8 hours a day in dress-up doing work.
As a parent, though, I like the idea of a dress code or uniform for the kids. When I see what other parents let their kids wear, I’m glad to have that influence removed. I’m not saying a 12-year-old kid can’t start trying to dress to impress the opposite gender, but READ what’s on those shirts people!
If it helps to prevent kids from segregating, I think that’s a valid goal, too.
Just make the outfit COMFORTABLE (seems like they’ve done better at this with khakis and polos, btw, since my time). It’s a very short trip from a tie to a noose.
Brett Said,
October 30, 2007 @ 8:15 pm
I was having this conversation with my daughter this morning; about her school not having a prestige uniform option for the asian parents that prefer the traditional ‘ao dai’ or Vietnamese long dress. In this country Boys not being able to wear prestige blazers in their final year is almost a crime! Funny how the people you deal with see you as the far right and how I see you as merely a middle ground negotiator! Uniforms are often made very casual in less prestigious schools but then extremely formal at prestigious schools. (Really who’s children need to create a fantastic image?)